Talk:Falkland Islanders

My 2c worth, I wouldn't merge the two articles. I can see them developing further, for instance the origins article currently misses certain waves of immigration. Justin talk 18:47, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

It's standard practice to have long articles on each ethnic group, and the origins article includes stuff which should be in the main article. As for me, I am sceptical as to whether the Falklanders constitute an ethnic group or not. For a start, they consider themselves "British" above all else (English maybe as well - not sure about that), with the Falkland aspect being more regional than ethnic. A huge proportion of the islands' residents are not native born, and that increases when you go back one or two generations. Couple this with high OUTmigration, and you end up with a tiny permanent population. --MacRusgail 11:17, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I tend to disagree. A substantial proportion of the population is of recent immigration but this reflects the booming economy of the islands. With full employment, immigration has been necessary to sustain economic growth. The proportion of recent immigrants reflects the recent history not the lack of a permanent population. Justin talk 12:05, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Addendum. They consider themselves British most definitely not English. Justin talk 15:31, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

In some parts of the world, the two are near synonyms. However there does seem to be some political docility, as far as I can tell, due to the low population, and quasi-feudal social structure (similar to some parts of Scotland!). --MacRusgail 16:55, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I'd disagree, the assumption of British = English is generally laziness. Some English do it and that annoys the Welsh and Scots. Justin talk 17:37, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Thankfully, Scots, and Welsh, are increasingly realising that contemporary "Britishness" has essentially been an expansion of Englishness. Good riddance too. It's good to see them grow out of it, but the position of England itself is a confused one.

By the way, can we really say there was no consensus to merge/not to, when there's only two of us discussing it? The tag should have been left up for longer, as they normally are. --MacRusgail 16:33, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

You put a merge discussion on a page that was less than a week old, it was up for three weeks and if you read my comments I'd suggested allowing the article to develop first. Pardon me but Britishness is not simply an extension of Englishness, never has been, never will be. The fact that foreigners can't tell the difference is neither here nor there. BTW I am actually Scottish, I also have Welsh, Irish, English and French blood in me, but I am also most definitely British. Justin talk 20:39, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

As a Scotsman, I can assure you that it nearly always is - that is why the Queen is always referred to by her English title, and numeral, why the only language the Brits use everywhere is English, and why the capital is the English capital. I am Scottish not British, and have no wish to be. The main aim of Britishness was to assure the Scots that they would have an equal role in the English empire when they were annexed. The Welsh took to it too, because they conflated the ancient meaning of "British" with the modern one. I too am a mix of various different peoples... but that's by the by, I'm not French, English, Irish or Norwegian (although my Norwegian ancestry would be probably a thousand years back). Britishness is going the way of all the other bogus identities like Sovietness (expansionist Russian-ness) etc. Good riddance. It's never been an ethnicity. --MacRusgail (talk) 15:50, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Accent? Dialect?

I wonder if it would be possible to touch upon the accent or dialect of the Falkland Islanders without getting too deeply into detail involved dense linguistic jargon. Are there many words used in the Falklands not used commonly by other English-speakers, or used with a different meaning or connotation? Are there many loanwords from Spanish?

If a Falklander were in another English-speaking country, would people be able to identify his origins by his accent? Would he sound more like someone from Wales? from Scotland? from Cornwall? from north England? from London? from NZ? Surely, after however long in isolation the islanders must have developed a different accent, just like people's accents differ across every other English-speaking country, and across regions within countries.

I would be most interested to learn more about this, and so would our hypothetical average reader. Thanks. LordAmeth (talk) 20:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Nationality, see CIA factbook section

The page says that the nationality of the Islanders is "Falkland islander", but that is incorrect, it's their Demonym. As per the British Nationality (Falkland Islands) Act 1983, they're British citizens. Since it's a British overseas territory, British law is correct in any contest regarding the Falkland islands with CIA factbook. I propse the removal of nationality section. --Île_flottante~Floating island ^Talk 11:31, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

No, being British is a duality of identity. I'm Scottish but also British, they are Falkland Islanders (or Falklanders) and British. The article is correct. Apologies for the vandalism warning, I see now it was a good faith edit albeit incorrect. Justin talk 12:16, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I beg to differ, I draw reference from [1] which says "1 the status of belonging to a particular nation", and the page Nationality which says "By custom, it is the right of each state to determine who its nationals are. Such determinations are part of nationality law.", and as far as I see, there is no Falkland law on Nationality. --Île_flottante~Floating island ^Talk 14:45, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Your OED quote has it pretty closely. But per the OED again [2], a "nation" is a large body of people united by common descent, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory. This is clearly distinct from an independent sovereign state: peoples such as the Basques, the Navajo, or the Kurds can be - and are - regarded as nations even though they do not have their own states and their nationality may not be defined by any nationality law.

Your Wikipedia quote ignores the section that says Alternatively, nationality can refer to membership in a nations (collective of people sharing a national identity, usually based on ethnic and cultural ties and self-determination) even if that nation has no state - recognising this fact.

A given nationality is thus not necessarily definitively tied to an independent sovereign state, and as such I see little need to deviate from the CIA World Factbook in this matter. Pfainuk talk 17:16, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Why is the Argentinian term given?

Is there a valid reason (Wiki policy, for example) why is the Argentinian view of what the inhabitants should be known as is included, and why is it portrayed as being Spanish when the Spanish translation would be something like "Los isleños de las Falkland"? FactController (talk) 22:04, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Not getting you point. Can you explain with examples from the article how the Argentinian view of what the inhabitants should be known as is included, and why is it portrayed as being Spanish when the Spanish translation would be something like "Los isleños de las Falkland"?

Your last point is wrong acording to the RAE malvineros an acepted (if not the predominant) Spanish name for the islanders. Los isleños de las Falkland is no more than your own invention. Chiton (talk) 22:12, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

I am asking: a) if there is a Wiki policy reason (or any other reason) why the designation for Falklanders favoured by the Argentinians is given such prominence and legitimacy, and b) why it is portrayed as the Spanish phrase for "Falkland Islanders". The Spanish I gave is the literal translation of "Falkland Islanders" and if you do a Google search on it, you'll see that it is used in Spanish publications which are not pushing the Argentinian line. FactController (talk) 06:45, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

See also the discussion at talk:Falkland Islands (which should be here really, my fault). — JonC^ॐ 08:42, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

No answer apparently. An editor restored it, mentioning "MOS" (presumably meaning WP:MOS) but I can't see which part there could be constued to require the Argentian preferred "Spanish" term. So I have removed it again. FactController (talk) 21:42, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

"No answer"? As it has been told, the discussion took place somewhere else. If you checked the link to that discussion, you would see that the link is Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names)#Falkland Islands Cambalachero (talk) 23:40, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Can you remember the title of the discussion that "took place somewhere else" (or give a link) so we can see the reasoning? It isn't too helpful to discuss and decide one article content in another, as future editors won't necessarily know about it. We need, at least, a summary of it, and a link to it, here. I'll have a search too. FactController (talk) 09:18, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

It's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Falkland_Islands/Archive_18 here. I don't agree with the MOS either, for what it's worth. — Jon C.^ॐ 11:19, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

And what we see there is that, although this article was mentioned, there was a clear overall view that the cited guidelines (Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names)#Falkland Islands) did not apply to this article (with just 2 dissenters), with this not being a geographical article or one directly related to the dispute. FactController (talk) 14:03, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Actually, when I pointed the guideline, there were 3 supports to keep (me, MarshalN20 and Wee Curry Monster) and only 1 dissent (Apcbg). And yes, the scope of the guideline is detailed in it and mentioned in the discussion: it applies to any article related to the dispute, and the people is related to it, it's the core of the British claim. Cambalachero (talk) 14:54, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

I make it 5:2, possibly 6:2 against, from the here discussion there + me here. We need to discuss it again here then, and get a feel for the consensus here. FactController (talk) 16:13, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

I am against the Argentinian Spanish term being used in this article, as per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names)#Falkland Islands, as this article is neither geographical nor directly related to the dispute. FactController (talk) 16:13, 19 August 2012 (UTC)