Prejudice

[toast_king]

That's it I'm gonna move to mexico...see how they like it!

Mexico has very, very strict immigration control. It's a difficult process to become an established citizen there. Kind of funny how at the same time the US is supposed to take millions of illegal immigrants without any complaints.

 

[Roughneck]

I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally

 

[toast_king]

At this point I should say that I'm speaking for Europe, not America.

This is just the fear factor. We're being replaced? Why, are they killing us and taking our identities?

Like I said, it's simple mathematics. Group A reproduces at a faster rate than Group B = Group A becomes the majority. If Group A happens to follow a racist, supremacist and violent ideology which mandates the subjugation of Group B, it's not a big suprise that there will be problems. Who is Group B? I'll let you figure it out.

I thought our countries were open to all? Paranoia only leads to hatred. Should we keep them all over there and just take our oil and get rich off it?

No country has an obligation to take any and all immigrants. A country can choose what kind of people it wants to let in, and under what conditions. Also, how are all those poor countries going to develop if all able-bodied persons just flee to Western lands?

If we're all getting rich from our usurpation of the rest of the world, you know what happens? People who aren't doing so well in those places, come to our places, and are welcome to as far as I'm concerned, to enjoy the riches we enjoy and try and get better lives for their families... many of them work hard, as many of us do... and despite the bad intentions of our original economic sucking dry of other nations, it works out well in one way:

If they make an effort to adapt to their new country and respect its culture, then I have no problem with immigration. If they don't want to adapt or respect the country's culture, they should fuck right off.

our nations become patchwork quilts of races and religions and we ULTIMATELY find a way to get along.

Some cultures get along, and some don't.

I think you're being too pessimistic. The culture of America is an amalgamation of different cultures. All are welcome. That's the point. We don't have a culture. We are a cocktail of everything. Some of the right wingers like to talk about our culture but the numbers speak for themselves... America has a bit of everything, blacks and latinos for example are finally becoming large enough groups to be very influential in politics, and long may that continue. On the day there is no racial majority in America, we might finally see something that approaches equality.

Of course you have a culture. Everyone has a culture. A country without a culture is worthless and doomed to fail. When there's no shared culture, there are no shared values or beliefs and there's nothing worth fighting for. If everyone who came into America simply kept their own culture to the exclusion of everything else, the country would have fallen apart ages ago.

 

[Iamforever]

If everyone who came into America simply kept their own culture to the exclusion of everything else, the country would have fallen apart ages ago.

guess what, they do keep their own cultures. fox is right on this. America is a bunch of different cultures living together. whether its in their homes, businesses, or politics, the people keep their cultures. its not a bad thing, just something that needs to adapted too.

 

[toast_king]

guess what, they do keep their own cultures. fox is right on this. america is a bunch of different cultures living together. whether its in their homes, businesses, or politics, the people keep their cultures. its not a bad thing, just something that needs to adapted too.

No, they do not. Citizens of a country must share a certain amount of culture, otherwise they will not get along. If we follow your logic to its inevitable conclusion, a racist, homophobic, misogynistic, ignorant, uneducated, violent and dishonest immigrant who comes to Finland will integrate just fine, even if he completely rejects Finnish and Western culture.

Culture is not just cooking recipes and and exotic dances, it also contains values and principles.

 

[Iamforever]

No, they do not. Citizens of a country must share a certain amount of culture, otherwise they will not get along. If we follow your logic to its inevitable conclusion, a racist, homophobic, misogynistic, ignorant, uneducated, violent and dishonest immigrant who comes to Finland will integrate just fine, even if he completely rejects Finnish and Western culture.

Culture is not just cooking recipes and and exotic dances, it also contains values and principles.

and what the hell do you think goes on in america? everything you just named. racism, homophobia, fighting between two cultures, etc. you just proved me right.

 

[toast_king]

and what the hell do you think goes on in america? everything you just named. racism, homophobia, fighting between two cultures, etc. you just proved me right.

No, I did not, because the things I mentioned are not the cultural norm in America. That's the whole point.

 

[Iamforever]

No, I did not, because the things I mentioned are not the cultural norm in America. That's the whole point.

do you live in america? and if so, where? because i do. and its mostly what i see, hear, and read about on the news.

 

[toast_king]

do you live in america? and if so, where? because i do. and its mostly what i see, hear, and read about on the news.

Wait... are you saying that racism, homophobia, misogyny, ignorance, lack of education, violence and dishonesty are integral, essential and mainstream elements of American culture?

 

[Iamforever]

Wait... are you saying that racism, homophobia, misogyny, ignorance, lack of education, violence and dishonesty are integral, essential and mainstream elements of American culture?

no, but it happens everyday because why? many different cultures. the original point. different cultures have different standards of life. and sometimes they clash. if a country only has one culture, all the bullshit would be scaled down tenfold.

 

[Legzman]

no, but it happens everyday because why? many different cultures. the original point. different cultures have different standards of life. and sometimes they clash. if a country only has one culture, all the bullshit would be scaled down tenfold.

I have to agree with this point! Everything in the news has something to do with race or some kind of prejudice/descrimination if you pay attention!

 

[toast_king]

no, but it happens everyday because why? many different cultures. the original point. different cultures have different standards of life. and sometimes they clash.

So wouldn't it be better to either force everyone to accept a common culture or exclude those who don't want to behave? Multiculturalism for multiculturalism's sake is just stupidity.

if a country only has one culture, all the bullshit would be scaled down tenfold.

If America had no shared culture, the bullshit would have destroyed the whole country a long time ago. This is what is happening in various part of Europe: a lot of immigrants who quite literally hate Western culture are moving in, and there are no shared values between the locals and the immigrants. Conflict is inevitable.

 

[Iamforever]

So wouldn't it be better to either force everyone to accept a common culture or exclude those who don't want to behave? Multiculturalism for multiculturalism's sake is just stupidity.

we in america have a thing called the constitution. it is illegal to make someone convert to one thing or another.

 

[Iamforever]

If America had no shared culture, the bullshit would have destroyed the whole country a long time ago. This is what is happening in various part of Europe: a lot of immigrants who quite literally hate Western culture are moving in, and there are no shared values between the locals and the immigrants. Conflict is inevitable.

America doesnt have a shared culture. and guess what? that is not destroying America. it might one day, but not today. another civil war may come up, but it wont be for a while. and how come you havnt answered my question as to whether or not you live in America?

 

[Roughneck]

When there's no shared culture, there are no shared values or beliefs and there's nothing worth fighting for. If everyone who came into America simply kept their own culture to the exclusion of everything else, the country would have fallen apart ages ago.

Bullshit. The very fact that there still exists "St. Patrick's Day" and Rosh Hashanah etc. is testament to the fact that while cultures can be exclusive, the common experiement of existence in society is not doomed to failure.

With every wave of immigration to America, the same old "immigration bogeyman" is brought up. Earlier in this country, we used to talk of 'forcibily sterilizing' the Irish to keep their population under control. Before that, it was the Chinese and the "Yellow Peril". Today it's the turn of the Hispanic "wetbacks". Tomorrow it'll be the turn of the muslim/"Aye-raab" "ragheads".

NONE of the original "immigrants" to this country shared any culture.
Few, if any, amongst the suceeding waves have shared culture.

And as you can see - America still stands tall and proud. This nation was built on the backs of immigrants. And it is through continued immigration that she manages to stay vibrant and youthful.


I understand your point about the need to respect societies laws.
But please don't feed me the nonsense about the need for "cultural assimilation". America is not so weak that we need to rubberstamp "approved" cultures. Nor are we a nation of clones.

America's strength lies in her variety and oppeness to one and all. Lady Liberty still says "give me your tired, hungry and poor" - not "give me your White Anglo-Saxon protestants".


cheers,

 

[toast_king]

we in America have a thing called the constitution. it is illegal to make someone convert to one thing or another.

A constitution? I thought everyone just followed their own culture? That's what you said before.

America doesnt have a shared culture. and guess what? that is not destroying America. it might one day, but not today. another civil war may come up, but it wont be for a while.

I don't think you even know what a culture is.

and how come you havnt answered my question as to whether or not you live in America?

No, I don't live there. What is that supposed to matter?

Bullshit. The very fact that there still exists "St. Patrick's Day" and Rosh Hashanah etc. is testament to the fact that while cultures can be exclusive, the common experiement of existence in society is not doomed to failure.

Uh, what? Having a St. Patrick's day doesn't mean that America is a collection of cultural enclaves that have nothing in common.

With every wave of immigration to America, the same old "immigration bogeyman" is brought up. Earlier in this country, we used to talk of 'forcibily sterilizing' the Irish to keep their population under control. Before that, it was the Chinese and the "Yellow Peril". Today it's the turn of the Hispanic "wetbacks". Tomorrow it'll be the turn of the muslim/"Aye-raab" "ragheads".

It's a fact that Muslims are hostile to Western civilization. Not quite all of them, but enough of them. It's less of a problem in America (possibly because it's such a large country, possibly for other reasons) if you don't count 9/11, but it's been a disaster in various part of Europe. The immigration bogeymen may have been bullshit before, but that doesn't mean that they will always be bullshit. You have to evaluate each case individually.

And as you can see - America still stands tall and proud. This nation was built on the backs of immigrants. And it is through continued immigration that she manages to stay vibrant and youthful.

I've never claimed that America is anything but a country of immigrants. Point not found.

I understand your point about the need to respect societies laws.
But please don't feed me the nonsense about the need for "cultural assimilation". America is not so weak that we need to rubberstamp "approved" cultures. Nor are we a nation of clones.

Cultural assimilation is 100% necessary. If there are people who don't follow society's rules because their culture tells them not to, you're going to have problems. Again, culture is not simply about having a St. Patrick's day or eating at a Chinese restaurant.

America's strength lies in her variety and oppeness to one and all. Lady Liberty still says "give me your tired, hungry and poor" - not "give me your White Anglo-Saxon protestants".

I don't see what this has to do with anything.

 

[Roughneck]

Uh, what? Having a St. Patrick's day doesn't mean that America is a collection of cultural enclaves that have nothing in common.

Stop being disingenuous.

It's a fact that Muslims are hostile to Western civilization. Not quite all of them, but enough of them. It's less of a problem in America (possibly because it's such a large country, possibly for other reasons) if you don't count 9/11, but it's been a disaster in various part of Europe. The immigration bogeymen may have been bullshit before, but that doesn't mean that they will always be bullshit. You have to evaluate each case individually.

Ahh yes. Muslims are all evil and Islam is a basket case religion - they all hate the West... which is why more numbers of them immigrate there every year. No, this isn't in search of a better life but a twisted secret covert operation to infiltrate the West and undermine us.

It's all so clear to me now...

You talk about "evluating each case individually" but then in the same breath condemn a mass section of people to intolerence. You are in effect, praciticing the same intolerence you accuse others of.

I've never claimed that America is anything but a country of immigrants. Point not found.

You're actually avoiding the point - I was showing how "immigration" is often painted as a problem when actually it is the solution.

Cultural assimilation is 100% necessary. If there are people who don't follow society's rules because their culture tells them not to, you're going to have problems. Again, culture is not simply about having a St. Patrick's day or eating at a Chinese restaurant.

Again - BS. You don't need to be part of the 'dominant' culture in America to follow the law and obey the rules.

I don't know what kind of absurd group think you follow were the actions of individuals are "pre-determined" by their "culture". It's no different from absurd generalizations such as : The Irish are drunks, The Jews are money lenders, The Italians are hot-tempered etc. Being muslim doesn't predispose you to lawlessness anymore than being Irish predisposes you to be a drunk.

A free society only asks for adherance to the law - not observance of it's dominant religion or anything else equally absurd.

I don't see what this has to do with anything.

I can't help that you can't see it. Read the thread title, it says "Prejudice".


cheers,

 

[toast_king]

Stop being disingenuous.

Elaborate.

Ahh yes. Muslims are all evil and Islam is a basket case religion - they all hate the West... which is why more numbers of them immigrate there every year. No, this isn't in search of a better life but a twisted secret covert operation to infiltrate the West and undermine us.

It's all so clear to me now...

I'm just stating the facts. I don't care if they don't fit into your ideology.

You talk about "evluating each case individually" but then in the same breath condemn a mass section of people to intolerence. You are in effect, praciticing the same intolerence you accuse others of.

Going by this logic, I can't say that most Africans are black because that would be - gasp - a generalization. No sir, we can't have that, that's evil and stuff.

You're actually avoiding the point - I was showing how "immigration" is often painted as a problem when actually it is the solution.

And often it's the other way around.

Again - BS. You don't need to be part of the 'dominant' culture in America to follow the law and obey the rules.

I never said that you have to be, but American culture mandates that people follow the law, behave themselves and are loyal to the country.

I don't know what kind of absurd group think you follow were the actions of individuals are "pre-determined" by their "culture".

I've never claimed that they're pre-determined.

Being muslim doesn't predispose you to lawlessness anymore than being Irish predisposes you to be a drunk.

It does. Being European predisposes a person to hold certain views. Most Europeans share the same values. Even Canadians, Australians and Americans largely share the same values with Europeans. Shared culture. Why, then, is it completely impossible to think that Muslim culture predisposes people to act and believe in a certain way? They have specific cultural features that are different from ours. If our culture causes us to act in a certain way, then so does theirs.

A free society only asks for adherance to the law - not observance of it's dominant religion or anything else equally absurd.

I've never claimed that people should observe any particular religion.

 

[Iamforever]

No, I don't live there. What is that supposed to matter?

it matters 100%. you talk like you live here in the usa. you talk like you know what life is like in the usa. stop.

 

[toast_king]

it matters 100%. you talk like you live here in the usa. you talk like you know what life is like in the usa. stop.

I don't have to live there, it's not relevant.